[chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc.

Mon Jan 29 10:11:36 PST 2018

I have worked for several anti-virus companies in the past, and do not see
where I mentioned any product at all, and deliberately keep my advice
neutral on products to use.  I do not promote my corporate interests outside
the official channels, when I disclose information it's generic in nature,
similar to a medical doctor, since every case is different.  As for product
effectiveness, there are also mailing lists and websites devoted to that,
none of that is what this list is devoted to.

From: chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com
[mailto:chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com] On Behalf Of Neil B
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 12:50 PM
To: Discussion of CHIRP <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc.

here here, it does seem rather biased rubbish coming from someone who claims
to work at a av company too..... Nortons crap, MSE works. end of. 

anyone got to the bottom of the leixon 898

issues as my post got swamped with other noise i think....

73's

  _____  

From: chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com
<mailto:chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com>
<chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com
<mailto:chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com> > on behalf of Tom
Henderson <Tom at Henderson4.us <mailto:Tom at Henderson4.us> >
Sent: 29 January 2018 17:44
To: chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
<mailto:chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com> 
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc. 

I second that. Somewhere there must be an email list just for twerps who
want to debate Antivirus protection strategy, and it's calling your names.

Tom Henderson

On 01/29/2018 11:25 AM, Mike Birch wrote:

Gentlemen,

Would you please take your OT "holy war/debate" about  antivirus software
someplace other than the [chirp_users] list....

Your current discussion thread has NOTHING to do with CHIRP.

Thank You,

--
Michael Birch KD9BDL
Grid: EN53la

On 1/29/2018 8:53 AM, Kenneth L. Bechtel, II wrote:

As someone who has been researching and fighting Viruses/ Malware for 30
years, this is the most IGNORANT, DANGEROUS  advice that I've come across
lately.  This is in no way shape or form how AV products work.  Yes, I
preach the most effective tools are basic security practices, but those
practices include the proper defensive tools.  HOW THE HECK can you know
you're not infected if you haven't even checked your system.  That's like
saying I'm healthy because a doctor hasn't told me I have high blood
pressure, and since I haven't been told I haven't seen a doctor in 10 years.
It's advice such as this (along with I don't run av because I run a
Mac/Linux and there is nothing targeting them).  Please Leave the defensive
advice to the professionals who KNOW what they are talking about, thank you

Kenneth L. Bechtel, II

Team Anti-Virus

Phone: 717-473-0839                  |Member AVAR

email - kbechtel at teamanti-virus.org <mailto:kbechtel at teamanti-virus.org>
|Founding Member AVIEN

PGP Footprint:  969E 2A27 3042 EE52 AEFB 6FF0 2711 9467 D38C 5C0F

From: chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com
<mailto:chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com>
[mailto:chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Smith
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 9:37 AM
To: Dave B  <mailto:g8kbv at uku.co.uk> <g8kbv at uku.co.uk>; Discussion of CHIRP
<mailto:chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
<chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc.

Dump 3rd party AV suites and use the OS provided AV tools. In order for
antivirus software to work, it needs to install hooks into the OS,
introducing weaknesses into the OS that were not there before. For an AV to
work they need to do all the things a virus does such as man in the middle
attacks EG reading your communications, even secured communications. The OS
developers know where the right places to install it's own AV without
weakening the OS.

It's hard to know where a virus ends and the AV starts because they both do
the same thing to get installed starting with the similar social and
psychological tricks to get you to install them. And once installed they
both use these same tricks (but in different ways) to make you keep them
installed, or to prevent uninstallation. A bit like different political
parties! 

As previously mentions, the best AV is UNcommon sense! Think before you
click, ask the following questions : 

Who gains from this? Is there ulterior motive such as gaining personal
information?

*Did I ask for this? Unsolicited files or offers are not free, nothing is
free except risk.

*Do I want this? -- Does the file come with an anything extra you didn't
want

*Why are they asking me for this? -- EG do they need my credit card number?
All I need in some cases is a name, half a telephone number or postcode/town
name and I can with reasonable certainty find someone and dig really deep in
to their personal life (I had to do this for a job I had, I'm no expert but
I always got my target, a professional will always get you).

*Is this really the file I wanted? -- Do you know how to check the file for
tampering by checking the MD5 checksum?

And more importantly a good, tested backup system known to be reliable and
accessible is the minimum safety you should have. I mirror my drive and have
copies made stored in my safe, and at a remote location. The remote variant
is in a uniquely sealed bag, but that's just me. For many this is overkill.
However, I can be up and running from a dead PC in 20 minutes from exactly
where I left off.

I have not had a successful virus or malware attack in 10 years since
adopting this method. SSD's instead of spinning rust drives are vastly
faster, and for the most part just as reliable, but with the back ups it
makes them even better. Also it's fair to say this method works equally as
well for Windows and Linux, and probably Macs but since adding things like
extra drives is almost impossible, I have my doubts!

</RANT>

Dennis Smith

M1DLG

On 29 January 2018 at 08:53, Dave B via chirp_users
<chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
<mailto:chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com> > wrote:

Quite honestly, I'm amazed anyone still thinks running Norton AV is an
acceptable solution to a perceived problem.

It itself is riddled with inconsistencies and other funnies, plus has a hair
trigger for false positives.  "Not seen by many users" is NOT a good metric
to judge if something is bad or not.

Windows own Windows Defender, in conjunction with whatever "Security
Essentials" is now called is more than adequate for 90+% of users, and the
price is right.

Coupled with the use of "uBlock Origin" in your web browsers, to block the
obnoxious nasties in on-line add's, and you'll have a slick fast and more
than safe enough system.   (Heck, that is even in the MS app store now, as
well as Chrome's webstore.)

The single best AV tool, is common sense...   Never, and I mean NEVER NEVER
Click on a popup you didn't expect*, or go to a site or download something
YOU DID NOT YOURSELF ASK OR GO LOOKING FOR!

And Never EVER respond to anything in unsolicited (spam) email's, however
attractive the proposition may look.

(* Not even any 'X' close button, that only confirms that they've found a
human, and may not even remove the popup.   Back out of that website/restart
the browser and find another with what you want.)

Norton AV used to be good, it's now just more bloat-ware, with questionable
practices, and not in truth a particularly good user experience.

As above, the best AV tool, is the wet stuff between your ears.   As in all
life, if something appears to be too good to be true, it probably is bad for
you, your PC, and/or your bank account!

73.

Dave G0WBX.

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