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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I have worked for several anti-virus companies in the past, and do not see where I mentioned any product at all, and deliberately keep my advice neutral on products to use. I do not promote my corporate interests outside the official channels, when I disclose information it’s generic in nature, similar to a medical doctor, since every case is different. As for product effectiveness, there are also mailing lists and websites devoted to that, none of that is what this list is devoted to.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com [mailto:chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil B<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 29, 2018 12:50 PM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of CHIRP <chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div id=divtagdefaultwrapper><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>here here, it does seem rather biased rubbish coming from someone who claims to work at a av company too..... Nortons crap, MSE works. end of. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>anyone got to the bottom of the leixon 898<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>issues as my post got swamped with other noise i think....<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>73's<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><hr size=2 width="98%" align=center></span></div><div id=divRplyFwdMsg><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='color:black'> <a href="mailto:chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com</a> <<a href="mailto:chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>> on behalf of Tom Henderson <<a href="mailto:Tom@Henderson4.us">Tom@Henderson4.us</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> 29 January 2018 17:44<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I second that. Somewhere there must be an email list just for twerps who want to debate Antivirus protection strategy, and it's calling your names.<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Tom Henderson<o:p></o:p></span></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On 01/29/2018 11:25 AM, Mike Birch wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Gentlemen,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Would you please take your OT "holy war/debate" about antivirus software someplace other than the [chirp_users] list....<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Your current discussion thread has NOTHING to do with CHIRP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Thank You,<br><br>--<br>Michael Birch KD9BDL<br>Grid: EN53la<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On 1/29/2018 8:53 AM, Kenneth L. Bechtel, II wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>As someone who has been researching and fighting Viruses/ Malware for 30 years, this is the most IGNORANT, DANGEROUS advice that I’ve come across lately. This is in no way shape or form how AV products work. Yes, I preach the most effective tools are basic security practices, but those practices include the proper defensive tools. HOW THE HECK can you know you’re not infected if you haven’t even checked your system. That’s like saying I’m healthy because a doctor hasn’t told me I have high blood pressure, and since I haven’t been told I haven’t seen a doctor in 10 years. It’s advice such as this (along with I don’t run av because I run a Mac/Linux and there is nothing targeting them). Please Leave the defensive advice to the professionals who KNOW what they are talking about, thank you<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Kenneth L. Bechtel, II<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Team Anti-Virus<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Phone: 717-473-0839 |Member AVAR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>email - <a href="mailto:kbechtel@teamanti-virus.org">kbechtel@teamanti-virus.org</a> |Founding Member AVIEN<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>PGP Footprint: 969E 2A27 3042 EE52 AEFB 6FF0 2711 9467 D38C 5C0F<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <a href="mailto:chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com</a> [<a href="mailto:chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com">mailto:chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dennis Smith<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 29, 2018 9:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> Dave B <a href="mailto:g8kbv@uku.co.uk"><g8kbv@uku.co.uk></a>; Discussion of CHIRP <a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com"><chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com></a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Dump 3rd party AV suites and use the OS provided AV tools. In order for antivirus software to work, it needs to install hooks into the OS, introducing weaknesses into the OS that were not there before. For an AV to work they need to do all the things a virus does such as man in the middle attacks EG reading your communications, even secured communications. The OS developers know where the right places to install it's own AV without weakening the OS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>It's hard to know where a virus ends and the AV starts because they both do the same thing to get installed starting with the similar social and psychological tricks to get you to install them. And once installed they both use these same tricks (but in different ways) to make you keep them installed, or to prevent uninstallation. A bit like different political parties! <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>As previously mentions, the best AV is UNcommon sense! Think before you click, ask the following questions : <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Who gains from this? Is there ulterior motive such as gaining personal information?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>*Did I ask for this? Unsolicited files or offers are not free, nothing is free except risk.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>*Do I want this? -- Does the file come with an anything extra you didn't want<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>*Why are they asking me for this? -- EG do they need my credit card number? All I need in some cases is a name, half a telephone number or postcode/town name and I can with reasonable certainty find someone and dig really deep in to their personal life (I had to do this for a job I had, I'm no expert but I always got my target, a professional will always get you).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>*Is this really the file I wanted? -- Do you know how to check the file for tampering by checking the MD5 checksum?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>And more importantly a good, tested backup system known to be reliable and accessible is the minimum safety you should have. I mirror my drive and have copies made stored in my safe, and at a remote location. The remote variant is in a uniquely sealed bag, but that's just me. For many this is overkill. However, I can be up and running from a dead PC in 20 minutes from exactly where I left off.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I have not had a successful virus or malware attack in 10 years since adopting this method. SSD's instead of spinning rust drives are vastly faster, and for the most part just as reliable, but with the back ups it makes them even better. Also it's fair to say this method works equally as well for Windows and Linux, and probably Macs but since adding things like extra drives is almost impossible, I have my doubts!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'></RANT><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Dennis Smith<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>M1DLG<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On 29 January 2018 at 08:53, Dave B via chirp_users <<a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank">chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=xmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Quite honestly, I'm amazed anyone still thinks running Norton AV is an acceptable solution to a perceived problem.<br><br>It itself is riddled with inconsistencies and other funnies, plus has a hair trigger for false positives. "Not seen by many users" is NOT a good metric to judge if something is bad or not.<br><br>Windows own Windows Defender, in conjunction with whatever "Security Essentials" is now called is more than adequate for 90+% of users, and the price is right.<br><br>Coupled with the use of "uBlock Origin" in your web browsers, to block the obnoxious nasties in on-line add's, and you'll have a slick fast and more than safe enough system. (Heck, that is even in the MS app store now, as well as Chrome's webstore.)<br><br>The single best AV tool, is common sense... Never, and I mean NEVER <b>NEVER</b> Click on a popup you didn't expect*, or go to a site or download something <b>YOU DID NOT YOURSELF ASK OR GO LOOKING FOR</b>!<br><br>And Never EVER respond to anything in unsolicited (spam) email's, however attractive the proposition may look.<br><br>(* Not even any 'X' close button, that only confirms that they've found a human, and may not even remove the popup. Back out of that website/restart the browser and find another with what you want.)<br><br>Norton AV used to be good, it's now just more bloat-ware, with questionable practices, and not in truth a particularly good user experience.<br><br>As above, the best AV tool, is the wet stuff between your ears. As in all life, if something appears to be too good to be true, it probably is bad for you, your PC, and/or your bank account!<br><br>73.<br><br>Dave G0WBX.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>chirp_users mailing list<br><a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fintrepid.danplanet.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fchirp_users&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf393fa492ec74ecd500008d567403d5e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636528447962789497&sdata=9jlSUX%2B2EFmpO%2Fv7zmiUpVcSnrUXj1wVc8ot1SfsOQY%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users</a><br>This message was sent to <a href="mailto:m1dlguk@gmail.com">m1dlguk@gmail.com</a> at <a href="mailto:m1dlguk@gmail.com">m1dlguk@gmail.com</a><br>To unsubscribe, send an email to <a href="mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>chirp_users mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fintrepid.danplanet.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fchirp_users&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf393fa492ec74ecd500008d567403d5e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636528447962789497&sdata=9jlSUX%2B2EFmpO%2Fv7zmiUpVcSnrUXj1wVc8ot1SfsOQY%3D&reserved=0">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>This message was sent to Michael Birch at <a href="mailto:kd9bdl@arrl.net">kd9bdl@arrl.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>To unsubscribe, send an email to <a href="mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>chirp_users mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fintrepid.danplanet.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fchirp_users&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf393fa492ec74ecd500008d567403d5e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636528447962789497&sdata=9jlSUX%2B2EFmpO%2Fv7zmiUpVcSnrUXj1wVc8ot1SfsOQY%3D&reserved=0">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>This message was sent to Tom KM4UQB at <a href="mailto:tom@henderson4.us">tom@henderson4.us</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>To unsubscribe, send an email to <a href="mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>