[chirp_devel] chirp_devel Digest, Vol 141, Issue 10

Sat Jan 21 17:35:56 PST 2023

Read and write is what Wouxun CPS uses.... but at least adding
"To radio " or "From Radio"   would help clarify direction of transfer for
those less radio/computer literate.

As upload and download are dependent on your perspective.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:02 PM <chirp_devel-request at intrepid.danplanet.com>
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Dan Smith)
>    2. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Matthew Poletiek)
>    3. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (David Boucha)
>    4. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Dan Smith)
>    5. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Jim Unroe)
>    6. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Dan Smith)
>    7. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Martin Cooper)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 15:34:14 -0800
> From: Dan Smith <dsmith at danplanet.com>
> Subject: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
> To: chirp devel <chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com>
> Message-ID: <021DF205-CBA7-4BE1-AC1B-F41499FEACB2 at danplanet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi all,
>
> Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload"
> and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a
> departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download
> FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users
> off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are
> too vague.
>
> Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to
> "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be
> okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.
>
> https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301
>
> I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to
> read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other
> software.
>
> --Dan
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:22:35 -0600
> From: Matthew Poletiek <matthew.poletiek at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
> To: Dan Smith <dsmith at danplanet.com>,   chirp devel
>         <chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAJhSV8uTqcoAk6+HDMA5P789t2mw547CETRiqSHSdot6ze6wcQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Probably thinking about it too hard myself, but here are some thoughts.
>
> Upload and download infer a temporary, potentially unstable connection or a
> remote/temporary target.
>
> Read and write infer something less remote and much more stable and
> consistent.
>
> I think upload and download make the most sense for this use case
> considering protocols in use and the temporary connection or potentially
> unstable one.
>
> Read and write might set expectations too high for some users.
>
> 2cents.
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 17:34 Dan Smith via chirp_devel <
> chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only
> "upload"
> > and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a
> > departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and
> "Download
> > FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users
> > off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options
> are
> > too vague.
> >
> > Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to
> > "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be
> > okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.
> >
> > https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301
> >
> > I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to
> > read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match
> other
> > software.
> >
> > --Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > chirp_devel mailing list
> > chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com
> > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel
> > Developer docs:
> http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:49:05 -0700
> From: David Boucha <boucha at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
> To: Dan Smith <dsmith at danplanet.com>,
>         chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAOWDhxkwwVFsR5EYCHiQxyJbR8R3O_878uZig0mJA8T50OFF8A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I'm very accustomed to upload and download terminology, but I've always
> felt there's a bit of vagueness or ambiguity to those terms.
>
> I think switching to read and write technology makes a ton of sense. It's
> very clear and explicit. Zero chance of confusion. I love it. It won't be a
> hard change for users because it makes so much sense.
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:34 PM Dan Smith via chirp_devel <
> chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only
> "upload"
> > and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a
> > departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and
> "Download
> > FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users
> > off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options
> are
> > too vague.
> >
> > Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to
> > "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be
> > okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.
> >
> > https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301
> >
> > I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to
> > read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match
> other
> > software.
> >
> > --Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > chirp_devel mailing list
> > chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com
> > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel
> > Developer docs:
> http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:00:31 -0800
> From: Dan Smith <dsmith at danplanet.com>
> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
> To: chirp devel <chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com>
> Message-ID: <A8C97CFD-D67E-43A1-8FBD-43215693A599 at danplanet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> > Probably thinking about it too hard myself, but here are some thoughts.
> >
> > Upload and download infer a temporary, potentially unstable connection
> or a remote/temporary target.
> >
> > Read and write infer something less remote and much more stable and
> consistent.
> >
> > I think upload and download make the most sense for this use case
> considering protocols in use and the temporary connection or potentially
> unstable one.
> >
> > Read and write might set expectations too high for some users.
>
> I'm going to go out on a limb and say, from one over-thinker to another, I
> think you over-thought that real good :)
>
> Looking at several other packages, here's what I find:
>
> KC8UNJ Commander: Read/Write
> Kenwood MCP: Read/Write
> Kenwood Commercial: Read/Write
> Icom CS: Read/Write
> Yaesu ADMS: Get/Send
> CHIRP-legacy: Download/Upload
>
> Sure seems like read/write is the more common thing. "Because Yaesu did
> it" is never a good reason, IMHO, so that's an easy outlier.
>
> I think that means read/write would put us on par with most everything
> else. Anyone else have data points or opinions? Maybe some non-Americans
> with different connotations for those words?
>
> --Dan
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 20:14:07 -0500
> From: Jim Unroe <rock.unroe at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
> To: Dan Smith <dsmith at danplanet.com>,
>         chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CADnO8U6jJdnvqMrzw4hHqgoF4G5hX0QyH89taB6MRgJSU83Usg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 6:34 PM Dan Smith via chirp_devel
> <chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only
> "upload" and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is
> a departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and
> "Download FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some
> users off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word
> options are too vague.
> >
> > Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to
> "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be
> okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.
> >
> > https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301
> >
> > I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to
> read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other
> software.
> >
> > --Dan
>
> For as long as I have been using CHIRP, I have had to help many users
> that get the download/upload terminology reversed. To be clearer it
> should at least include TO/FROM. For example "Upload TO radio" or "TO
> Radio" with the corresponding "Download FROM radio" or "FROM radio".
>
> Most factory software that I have used will have a bubble pop up that
> just says "read" or "wright" depending on which way the cloning
> operation is going. If "Read" and "Write" is decided upon, it might
> also be worth changing the hotkeys to "Ctrl-R" and "Ctrl-W".
>
> Jim KC9HI
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:20:03 -0800
> From: Dan Smith <dsmith at danplanet.com>
> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
> To: chirp devel <chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com>
> Message-ID: <ED25026B-382F-4549-88A9-E77AC1376E53 at danplanet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> > For as long as I have been using CHIRP, I have had to help many users
> > that get the download/upload terminology reversed. To be clearer it
> > should at least include TO/FROM. For example "Upload TO radio" or "TO
> > Radio" with the corresponding "Download FROM radio" or "FROM radio".
> >
> > Most factory software that I have used will have a bubble pop up that
> > just says "read" or "wright" depending on which way the cloning
> > operation is going. If "Read" and "Write" is decided upon, it might
> > also be worth changing the hotkeys to "Ctrl-R" and "Ctrl-W".
>
> OMG, I didn't think about the crazy hotkey muscle memory I'm going to have
> to break if we change ;)
>
> Jim, in your best politician voice, you didn't actually answer the
> question, but it sounds like you see more real-world confusion over
> upload/download than read/write. So I'm going to put down "the senator from
> the midwest prefers read/write" unless you move to strike... :)
>
> --Dan
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:53:03 -0800
> From: Martin Cooper <mfncooper at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
> To: Dan Smith <dsmith at danplanet.com>,
>         chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAGEtHi+MB1w21jA9WaB5OkUemiJH2k58W6wjn10NtpJONT5T-g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I like upload / download, because it's consistent with so many other tools,
> though not necessarily radio-related tools. I use FileZilla a lot, so I use
> upload / download there. Cloud storage systems like iCloud and Google Drive
> talk about upload and download. People download photos from their phones to
> their computers. I think people are used to upload meaning "send from here
> to other place / device" and download meaning "bring to my computer from
> other place / device". I don't think radios need to be different from those
> common usage patterns.
>
> Martin.
> KD6YAM
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 3:34 PM Dan Smith via chirp_devel <
> chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only
> "upload"
> > and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a
> > departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and
> "Download
> > FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users
> > off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options
> are
> > too vague.
> >
> > Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to
> > "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be
> > okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.
> >
> > https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301
> >
> > I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to
> > read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match
> other
> > software.
> >
> > --Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > chirp_devel mailing list
> > chirp_devel at intrepid.danplanet.com
> > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel
> > Developer docs:
> http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
> >
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>
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>
> End of chirp_devel Digest, Vol 141, Issue 10
> ********************************************
>
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