<div dir="auto">Read and write is what Wouxun CPS uses.... but at least adding <div dir="auto">"To radio " or "From Radio" would help clarify direction of transfer for those less radio/computer literate. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As upload and download are dependent on your perspective.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:02 PM <<a href="mailto:chirp_devel-request@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_devel-request@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send chirp_devel mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Dan Smith)<br>
2. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Matthew Poletiek)<br>
3. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (David Boucha)<br>
4. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Dan Smith)<br>
5. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Jim Unroe)<br>
6. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Dan Smith)<br>
7. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Martin Cooper)<br>
<br>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 15:34:14 -0800<br>
From: Dan Smith <<a href="mailto:dsmith@danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dsmith@danplanet.com</a>><br>
Subject: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology<br>
To: chirp devel <<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:021DF205-CBA7-4BE1-AC1B-F41499FEACB2@danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">021DF205-CBA7-4BE1-AC1B-F41499FEACB2@danplanet.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload" and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are too vague.<br>
<br>
Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301</a><br>
<br>
I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other software.<br>
<br>
--Dan<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:22:35 -0600<br>
From: Matthew Poletiek <<a href="mailto:matthew.poletiek@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">matthew.poletiek@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology<br>
To: Dan Smith <<a href="mailto:dsmith@danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dsmith@danplanet.com</a>>, chirp devel<br>
<<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAJhSV8uTqcoAk6%2BHDMA5P789t2mw547CETRiqSHSdot6ze6wcQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CAJhSV8uTqcoAk6+HDMA5P789t2mw547CETRiqSHSdot6ze6wcQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Probably thinking about it too hard myself, but here are some thoughts.<br>
<br>
Upload and download infer a temporary, potentially unstable connection or a<br>
remote/temporary target.<br>
<br>
Read and write infer something less remote and much more stable and<br>
consistent.<br>
<br>
I think upload and download make the most sense for this use case<br>
considering protocols in use and the temporary connection or potentially<br>
unstable one.<br>
<br>
Read and write might set expectations too high for some users.<br>
<br>
2cents.<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 17:34 Dan Smith via chirp_devel <<br>
<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload"<br>
> and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a<br>
> departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download<br>
> FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users<br>
> off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are<br>
> too vague.<br>
><br>
> Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to<br>
> "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be<br>
> okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301</a><br>
><br>
> I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to<br>
> read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other<br>
> software.<br>
><br>
> --Dan<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> chirp_devel mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel</a><br>
> Developer docs: <a href="http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers</a><br>
><br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:49:05 -0700<br>
From: David Boucha <<a href="mailto:boucha@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">boucha@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology<br>
To: Dan Smith <<a href="mailto:dsmith@danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dsmith@danplanet.com</a>>,<br>
<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAOWDhxkwwVFsR5EYCHiQxyJbR8R3O_878uZig0mJA8T50OFF8A@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CAOWDhxkwwVFsR5EYCHiQxyJbR8R3O_878uZig0mJA8T50OFF8A@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I'm very accustomed to upload and download terminology, but I've always<br>
felt there's a bit of vagueness or ambiguity to those terms.<br>
<br>
I think switching to read and write technology makes a ton of sense. It's<br>
very clear and explicit. Zero chance of confusion. I love it. It won't be a<br>
hard change for users because it makes so much sense.<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:34 PM Dan Smith via chirp_devel <<br>
<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload"<br>
> and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a<br>
> departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download<br>
> FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users<br>
> off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are<br>
> too vague.<br>
><br>
> Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to<br>
> "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be<br>
> okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301</a><br>
><br>
> I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to<br>
> read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other<br>
> software.<br>
><br>
> --Dan<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> chirp_devel mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel</a><br>
> Developer docs: <a href="http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers</a><br>
><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:00:31 -0800<br>
From: Dan Smith <<a href="mailto:dsmith@danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dsmith@danplanet.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology<br>
To: chirp devel <<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:A8C97CFD-D67E-43A1-8FBD-43215693A599@danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">A8C97CFD-D67E-43A1-8FBD-43215693A599@danplanet.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
> Probably thinking about it too hard myself, but here are some thoughts. <br>
> <br>
> Upload and download infer a temporary, potentially unstable connection or a remote/temporary target. <br>
> <br>
> Read and write infer something less remote and much more stable and consistent. <br>
> <br>
> I think upload and download make the most sense for this use case considering protocols in use and the temporary connection or potentially unstable one. <br>
> <br>
> Read and write might set expectations too high for some users. <br>
<br>
I'm going to go out on a limb and say, from one over-thinker to another, I think you over-thought that real good :)<br>
<br>
Looking at several other packages, here's what I find:<br>
<br>
KC8UNJ Commander: Read/Write<br>
Kenwood MCP: Read/Write<br>
Kenwood Commercial: Read/Write<br>
Icom CS: Read/Write<br>
Yaesu ADMS: Get/Send<br>
CHIRP-legacy: Download/Upload<br>
<br>
Sure seems like read/write is the more common thing. "Because Yaesu did it" is never a good reason, IMHO, so that's an easy outlier.<br>
<br>
I think that means read/write would put us on par with most everything else. Anyone else have data points or opinions? Maybe some non-Americans with different connotations for those words?<br>
<br>
--Dan<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 20:14:07 -0500<br>
From: Jim Unroe <<a href="mailto:rock.unroe@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rock.unroe@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology<br>
To: Dan Smith <<a href="mailto:dsmith@danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dsmith@danplanet.com</a>>,<br>
<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CADnO8U6jJdnvqMrzw4hHqgoF4G5hX0QyH89taB6MRgJSU83Usg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CADnO8U6jJdnvqMrzw4hHqgoF4G5hX0QyH89taB6MRgJSU83Usg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 6:34 PM Dan Smith via chirp_devel<br>
<<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload" and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are too vague.<br>
><br>
> Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301</a><br>
><br>
> I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other software.<br>
><br>
> --Dan<br>
<br>
For as long as I have been using CHIRP, I have had to help many users<br>
that get the download/upload terminology reversed. To be clearer it<br>
should at least include TO/FROM. For example "Upload TO radio" or "TO<br>
Radio" with the corresponding "Download FROM radio" or "FROM radio".<br>
<br>
Most factory software that I have used will have a bubble pop up that<br>
just says "read" or "wright" depending on which way the cloning<br>
operation is going. If "Read" and "Write" is decided upon, it might<br>
also be worth changing the hotkeys to "Ctrl-R" and "Ctrl-W".<br>
<br>
Jim KC9HI<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:20:03 -0800<br>
From: Dan Smith <<a href="mailto:dsmith@danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dsmith@danplanet.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology<br>
To: chirp devel <<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:ED25026B-382F-4549-88A9-E77AC1376E53@danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ED25026B-382F-4549-88A9-E77AC1376E53@danplanet.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
> For as long as I have been using CHIRP, I have had to help many users<br>
> that get the download/upload terminology reversed. To be clearer it<br>
> should at least include TO/FROM. For example "Upload TO radio" or "TO<br>
> Radio" with the corresponding "Download FROM radio" or "FROM radio".<br>
> <br>
> Most factory software that I have used will have a bubble pop up that<br>
> just says "read" or "wright" depending on which way the cloning<br>
> operation is going. If "Read" and "Write" is decided upon, it might<br>
> also be worth changing the hotkeys to "Ctrl-R" and "Ctrl-W".<br>
<br>
OMG, I didn't think about the crazy hotkey muscle memory I'm going to have to break if we change ;)<br>
<br>
Jim, in your best politician voice, you didn't actually answer the question, but it sounds like you see more real-world confusion over upload/download than read/write. So I'm going to put down "the senator from the midwest prefers read/write" unless you move to strike... :)<br>
<br>
--Dan<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:53:03 -0800<br>
From: Martin Cooper <<a href="mailto:mfncooper@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mfncooper@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology<br>
To: Dan Smith <<a href="mailto:dsmith@danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dsmith@danplanet.com</a>>,<br>
<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAGEtHi%2BMB1w21jA9WaB5OkUemiJH2k58W6wjn10NtpJONT5T-g@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CAGEtHi+MB1w21jA9WaB5OkUemiJH2k58W6wjn10NtpJONT5T-g@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I like upload / download, because it's consistent with so many other tools,<br>
though not necessarily radio-related tools. I use FileZilla a lot, so I use<br>
upload / download there. Cloud storage systems like iCloud and Google Drive<br>
talk about upload and download. People download photos from their phones to<br>
their computers. I think people are used to upload meaning "send from here<br>
to other place / device" and download meaning "bring to my computer from<br>
other place / device". I don't think radios need to be different from those<br>
common usage patterns.<br>
<br>
Martin.<br>
KD6YAM<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 3:34 PM Dan Smith via chirp_devel <<br>
<a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload"<br>
> and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a<br>
> departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download<br>
> FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users<br>
> off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are<br>
> too vague.<br>
><br>
> Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to<br>
> "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be<br>
> okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301</a><br>
><br>
> I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to<br>
> read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other<br>
> software.<br>
><br>
> --Dan<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> chirp_devel mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel</a><br>
> Developer docs: <a href="http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers</a><br>
><br>
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</blockquote></div>