[drats_users] drats_users Digest, Vol 46, Issue 3
Kirk Talbott
Fri Jun 15 13:47:34 PDT 2012
D-RATS with analog radios and TNCs.
Well, I could have something wrong, at least I'll
admit that. But then I never knew very many people
who were ever attempting it, nobody to ask questions.
Has anyone done it? I would think if someone had it
would have caught on like wildfire. If anyone has done
it and gotten all the features of D-RATS to work with
it, please let me know what you did. I like it.
73
KB3ONM
Kirk
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Subject: drats_users Digest, Vol 46, Issue 3
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: drats_users Digest, Vol 46, Issue 2 (Kirk Talbott)
2. Re: drats_users Digest, Vol 46, Issue 2 (Dan Smith)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:30:26 -0400
From: "Kirk Talbott" <kirktal7237 at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [drats_users] drats_users Digest, Vol 46, Issue 2
To: <drats_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID: <SNT106-DS1487BCA0FD46C44B1B850DA6F40 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I have to agree with Dan here. I've tried D-RATS using
AX.25 with the Kenwood TS-2000 and TMD-710A radios
with internal TNC's and with the Kantronics KPC-3+ and
Timewave PK-232 TNC's and D-RATS forms E-mail
won't work with them unless the messages are ridiculously
short, perhaps one small sentence, regardless of the D-RATS block
size settings. Note that current Kenwood radio internal TNC's
do not have any ram or mailboxes and adding RAM to KPC-3+
and Timewave PK-232 TNC's is prohibitively expensive.
What does work on D-RATS AX.25 with TNC's is the file transfer feature
and you can accomplish "E-mail" this way by using basic text files
created in Windows Notepad or other similar text editor. Additionally,
the digipeating function also works in D-RATS AX.25 with TNCs and
I have tested using D-RATS to digipeat through an old PACKET digipeater
(not APRS). Just where you might find one of these could be difficult.
I have to admit that while the concept of D-RATS AX.25 with TNC's is
neat, like CW is neat, there really isn't any need to use it when the use
of D-STAR radios with D-RATS works very well and all the features of
D-RATS works with them.
Note that there is also another D-Star radio packet program called
D-Star Chat or sometimes called D-Chat. This is just a basic packet
messaging program and it is not as comprehensive a system as
D-RATS, but it works well.
Lastly, D-RATS can message with Winlink 2000 RMS nodes. This feature
allows messaging between APRS stations (using APRSLink), D-RATS,
and Packet Radio stations making TNC's and AX.25 unnecessary for D-RATS.
D-RATS and D-Star has its own mapping system called DPRS which I
believe (I've never done it) can interface with APRS such that DPRS
stations can appear on APRS maps and vice versa.
Hope this helps
73 KB3ONM
Kirk
-----Original Message-----
From: drats_users-request at intrepid.danplanet.com
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 3:00 PM
To: drats_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
Subject: drats_users Digest, Vol 46, Issue 2
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Some D-RATS questions (mostly AX25 related) (Jason Godfrey)
2. Re: Some D-RATS questions (mostly AX25 related) (Dan Smith)
3. Re: Some D-RATS questions (mostly AX25 related) (Joe Thielen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:10:25 -0500
From: Jason Godfrey <godfreja at gmail.com>
Subject: [drats_users] Some D-RATS questions (mostly AX25 related)
To: drats_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
Message-ID:
<CAFkHVZeu2_pwxW5fEijoba7A3Y62=+aUxFhoi9zXjgyHUzRkLA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello.
I've been looking at D-RATS to help support a bike event. Given that many
of our volunteers don't have D-STAR gear and a lack of infrastructure, I am
thinking we would have to use packet. I have some questions I haven't been
able to find answers for in the manual or via Google. I'm hoping someone
could give me some answers.
1) Is there a way to repeat APRS position reports onto a D-RATS net? For
example, if I have some SAG wagons with APRS tracker kits, can I get their
position reports to display on the D-RATS map and other D-RATS users I am
communicating with? (I know there is a gateway for DPRS to APRS, but I
haven't found anything on the other direction.)
2) Is there anything "bad" about using a TNC connected to 144.39, setting
the PATH to some WIDEn-n, and using the existing digipeater infrastructure
for D-RATS? We have a fairly large area to cover, but fortunately there is
OK digi coverage, and the channel isn't heavily loaded.
I had another question about using tactical callsigns with AX25, but I
think I can use the QST feature to get legal ID's in.
Thanks in advance for any light you can shine my way.
- Jason, N0RPM
--
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is often difficult to
verify their authenticity." - *Abraham Lincoln*
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:46:39 -0700
From: Dan Smith <dsmith at danplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [drats_users] Some D-RATS questions (mostly AX25 related)
To: Discussion of D-RATS <drats_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID: <4FD9F94F.70103 at danplanet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 1) Is there a way to repeat APRS position reports onto a D-RATS net? For
> example, if I have some SAG wagons with APRS tracker kits, can I get
> their position reports to display on the D-RATS map and other D-RATS
> users I am communicating with? (I know there is a gateway for DPRS to
> APRS, but I haven't found anything on the other direction.)
No, D-RATS currently doesn't understand anything about raw APRS itself.
The APRS spec is fairly messy and properly parsing the hundreds of
variations is a lot of work that I haven't seen the need to add. I may
add basic parsing (i.e. just lat/lon/symbol) at some point, but it's not
currently supported.
> 2) Is there anything "bad" about using a TNC connected to 144.39,
> setting the PATH to some WIDEn-n, and using the existing digipeater
> infrastructure for D-RATS? We have a fairly large area to cover, but
> fortunately there is OK digi coverage, and the channel isn't heavily
> loaded.
Well, it depends on your infrastructure, users, and other such factors.
Around here, you'd become rather unpopular extremely quickly if you did
this.
You should note that D-RATS' support for using TNCs is really basic and
certain things won't work properly, such as transferring any block
longer than what the TNC can handle. TNCs have different limits
depending on model, age, and the mode you put them in. D-RATS was
designed for D-STAR radios, which can stream data continuously, and thus
it doesn't currently have the necessary logic to arbitrarily break
things up into tiny pieces for digest by a 1980's-era device. Most chat
messages are small enough and the file/form transfers already break
things up so you just have to make sure the block size settings are such
that they'll never get too large for the TNC.
The TNC and AX.25 support are mostly tools for gaining acceptance and
doing testing at the moment. I'm not sure if anyone is really using it
effectively for production work. Maybe someone will speak up here and
prove me wrong. My real point is: make sure you test what you're
planning to do before you commit to doing it :)
--
Dan Smith
www.danplanet.com
KK7DS
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:41:42 -0400
From: Joe Thielen <joe at joethielen.com>
Subject: Re: [drats_users] Some D-RATS questions (mostly AX25 related)
To: Discussion of D-RATS <drats_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID:
<CAM9FSFy2Rjjn-gixiFmcmtzzaB5cjOF-NSmG=-Fu8H1a46A+2Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My club just set up a TNC for use with D-RATS. But we're not using the
AX25 option. We're just starting testing with it. Our goal is to
eventually have 2m/440 packet nodes as well as D-STAR tie-ins. We're also
looking to make use of the Winlink 2000 functionality.
I totally understand what Dan is saying about old TNC technology. But I
also share some of Jason's points. This stuff is out there and unused
(TNCs/packet equip). My club had a packet cluster back in the day and that
equipment has just sat there (antennas/coax/radios/TNCs). With some
minimal investment and cleaning up we're trying to make some good use of
this again.
As for Jason's digipeater ideas, I personally have conflicting feelings on
this. I think it's a great idea, technologically... being able to bring
in the APRS users into D-RATS. But I also share Dan's sentiments here... I
wouldn't want to have non-APRS stuff on the APRS channel. I do like Dan's
idea about a quick and dirty way to accept APRS position reports into
D-RATS. I think that would add some quick value. However, in Jason's
situation I would rather see a way to get those APRS users onto a separate
D-RATS freq. But if the APRS users have fixed frequency transmitters...
ugh. Round and round :). UNLESS Jason could set up a digipeater which
listened on 144.39 but transmitted on the D-RATS freq... that way the APRS
data makes its way to the D-RATS side.
??
On Jun 14, 2012 10:46 AM, "Dan Smith" <dsmith at danplanet.com> wrote:
> 1) Is there a way to repeat APRS position reports onto a D-RATS net? For
> example, if I have some...
No, D-RATS currently doesn't understand anything about raw APRS itself.
The APRS spec is fairly messy and properly parsing the hundreds of
variations is a lot of work that I haven't seen the need to add. I may
add basic parsing (i.e. just lat/lon/symbol) at some point, but it's not
currently supported.
> 2) Is there anything "bad" about using a TNC connected to 144.39, >
setting the PATH to some WIDE...
Well, it depends on your infrastructure, users, and other such factors.
Around here, you'd become rather unpopular extremely quickly if you did
this.
You should note that D-RATS' support for using TNCs is really basic and
certain things won't work properly, such as transferring any block
longer than what the TNC can handle. TNCs have different limits
depending on model, age, and the mode you put them in. D-RATS was
designed for D-STAR radios, which can stream data continuously, and thus
it doesn't currently have the necessary logic to arbitrarily break
things up into tiny pieces for digest by a 1980's-era device. Most chat
messages are small enough and the file/form transfers already break
things up so you just have to make sure the block size settings are such
that they'll never get too large for the TNC.
The TNC and AX.25 support are mostly tools for gaining acceptance and
doing testing at the moment. I'm not sure if anyone is really using it
effectively for production work. Maybe someone will speak up here and
prove me wrong. My real point is: make sure you test what you're
planning to do before you commit to doing it :)
--
Dan Smith
www.danplanet.com
KK7DS
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:45:41 -0700
From: Dan Smith <dsmith at danplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [drats_users] drats_users Digest, Vol 46, Issue 2
To: Discussion of D-RATS <drats_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID: <4FDA4D75.8070607 at danplanet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> What does work on D-RATS AX.25 with TNC's is the file transfer feature
> and you can accomplish "E-mail" this way by using basic text files
> created in Windows Notepad or other similar text editor.
This makes no sense. A file transfer and a form transfer are the same
thing under the covers. If you see one work and the other fail, you have
something else wrong.
--
Dan Smith
www.danplanet.com
KK7DS
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