[chirp_users] Please post

Thu Sep 13 17:02:20 PDT 2012

hi dan:

yeah, after basically 3 days of trying to make this (mac/chirp) work off
and on and after 20 failures in a row to connect and then going to my
desktop with windows7/chirp running and having it work perfectly each and
every time (i have not had a single failure to connect or pass data in well
over a hundred trials with two different radio models--a tribute to the
robustness of chirp running on windows7--a record i know even commercial
software would be proud of), i probably did come here with a chip on my
shoulder when i saw chirp mentioned as working well on the mac. i apologize
if i came off as passive-aggressive. [g] and that robustness of
windows/chirp makes it even more frustrating that i can't get it working on
the mac.

i built the first pc from a kit and have working in the field since then,
so i'm fairly platform agnostic and have been sysadmin for unix and
unix-clone systems over the years. but as i get older i find myself less
and less willing to do the work and maintenance to keep linux and windows
running smoothly and protect windows from malware and viruses. thus i'm
using a mac--and especially because it lets me run (via vmware) windows and
ubuuntu in a window on my mac so i can somewhat keep up with the big three
and, as in the case of these radios, have a way to support devices that the
mac won't support. i'm not a gamer so i don't need the bootcamp option and,
in any case, i like having the mac available all the time.

anyway, based on what you are saying, i guess i have to conclude now that
either i have a bad driver, the driver is not installed correctly, or the
driver doesn't like either one of my two differently-sourced cables. but
what throws this theory under the bridge or at least makes it harder to
troubleshoot is that if i persevere long enough, i can actually get the
radio and chirp to talk and pass data native on the mac without changing
anything from my windows setup.

again, i appreciate all efforts to help me out and as we were saying--you
have to make a tradeoff as to whether the effort is worth it to me
personally. in my case with the windows7 workaround which is as easy as
moving to a different window and a couple of clicks, i have to say that
it's not worth the effort to get mac/chirp working. but the fact is that
i've been a tech troubleshooter all my life and i can rarely step back from
a challenge and i got sucked into this one trying this and that here and
there.

/guy (73 de kg5vt)

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 6:44 PM, Dan Smith <dsmith at danplanet.com> wrote:

> > you make some sense in places and some good points (although i don't
> > pretend to understand the plumbing of vmware and an 'emulated' system)
> > and some of your info is very useful. but i fail to understand how
> > windows can accept what you are calling a 'counterfeit' chip and mac
> > rejects it.
>
> My point was that the MacOS driver is completely out of the loop when
> the device is passed through to Windows. The details of why the Windows
> driver is better than the MacOS driver stems from the fact that the
> former gets a lot more development attention and testing (as does the
> whole Windows USB stack, for that matter). By the way, lots of Windows
> folks have trouble with the drivers as well, but it seems like the last
> official version before Prolific started trying to exclude the
> counterfeit chips is an easy choice for most.
>
> > it seems to me that just because the code base is the same, it doesn't
> > mean that code interacts with the os's the same. that is what i meant by
> > my caveat ' ... on my particular system'.  for example, there could be a
> > usb bus timing issue (my symptoms could easily indicate this) that
> > vmware/chirp//windows handles perfectly and mac/chirp doesn't tolerate
> > at all.
>
> There are several layers between CHIRP and the OS dealing with the
> serial line communication that are there to make that a non-issue.
> Further, the timing in question (especially with your particular radio)
> is extremely lax and not something that would be affected by minor
> differences in otherwise high-speed hardware. If you were complaining
> about a Yaesu driver, I'd be considering other options (or hiding :)
>
> On MacOS, it's difficult because there's no native software to prove
> that the driver is to blame. On Windows, that's easy and clear, of course.
>
> > and yes, i own some of those clunky keyspan adaptors. this isn't my
> > first rodeo on connecting radios to computers! [g] also, i used to have
> > to have them to connect my macs to cisco console ports, so they are very
> > useful, but clunky and i don't think i should have to haul one out and
> > buy a serial cable to make this work.
>
> Well, that's your call. You're on a platform that doesn't get nearly the
> attention of the other one. That means that not every combination of
> hardware is going to work flawlessly, as you have come to see. If you
> feel that you shouldn't have to use ugly hardware (as most Mac users
> seem to feel) then continuing to chase the driver issues is likely to be
> your preferred course. You could also try to find someone that makes a
> known-good programming cable with a USB hood on it (which is often
> difficult). However, the fact is, you're not going to get support for
> your chinese knock-off cable from the manufacturer, nor the manufacturer
> of the hardware they knocked off, nor your platform vendor.
>
> We are telling you that the problem is well-understood and we're trying
> to provide you with ways around it. As a Lexus owner will tell you, it's
> a different TCO equation than owning a Toyota, even though it's just a
> car, and is made in the same factory, with nearly the same parts.
>
> > i do appreciate you guys trying to help, but i'm getting a very
> > protective, defensive tone about the software here and i guess that's
> > understandable. if i put hours of work into a project and it worked for
> > most people and i was at the mercy of hardware and flaky installs, i'll
> > bet i'd be a little touchy too. i troubleshoot for a living, so i do
> > sympathize.
>
> Yep, we're a little touchy. Mostly because we're well-aware of the
> issues, but really can't do much about them for you. You have, at times,
> sounded a little accusatory, and I can't really blame you for that.
> However, remember that we're all volunteers (as are the folks that
> attempt to write one of the MacOS drivers that tolerate counterfeit chips).
>
> So, sorry for sounding a bit short. All we can do is tell you what we
> know, ask you to treat us with respect, and ask you to trust us that
> we're not just brushing you off.
>
> --
> Dan Smith
> www.danplanet.com
> KK7DS
>
>
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>
>
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