<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Yes, good idea. <br><br>Regards Dave S<div><br></div><div>Sent from my iPhone</div></div><div><br>On 3 Mar 2016, at 12:29, Eric Vought <<a href="mailto:evought@pobox.com">evought@pobox.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Or a tooltip with the calculated value.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 5:55 PM, gerard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gmkayaker@gmail.com" target="_blank">gmkayaker@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">On 3/2/2016 4:03 PM, Dave VK2FDJS wrote:<br>
> I wonder if it would be feasible to include both the offset amount and the resultant frequency - perhaps greyed-out or in smaller font - when it's a +/-.<br>
</span>It could just be another column whose value is derived from the combination of<br>
the Duplex and Offset columns. Or you could enter either the Offset or the 2nd<br>
frequency and calculate the other. I don't think it would affect what was stored<br>
in the file or radio, just how the data was entered. But I don't know how the UI<br>
code is structured.<br>
<span class="">> Although my radios are programmed as +/- they actually display the TX frequency when I hit the PTT, so I find myself doing the same mental arithmetic.<br>
><br>
> Gerard, perhaps you could look at making the change yourself, as you're a software person, and submitting the change to the developers. Although the developers probably prefer to keep away from the UI, it's SOP for us software types.<br>
</span>Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Python and I doubt the developers would<br>
want a python newbie messing with the code. And I'm more of a software<br>
generalist than a programmer per se. Agile coaching, automated testing,<br>
usability, etc. are my main areas of expertise these days.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
Gerard<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">><br>
> Regards Dave VK2FDJS<br>
><br>
> Sent from my iPad<br>
><br>
>> On 3 Mar 2016, at 07:26, gerard <<a href="mailto:gmkayaker@gmail.com">gmkayaker@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks for the background info. As a software professional myself, I appreciate<br>
>> the technical challenges as well as the natural tendencies of software<br>
>> developers. Your idea of basing the default behaviour based on the frequency<br>
>> range makes sense to me. Another option would be to have a picklist or<br>
>> check-box/toggle above the Offset column to force the display in one format or<br>
>> another. Maybe only show it when the radio doesn't store the format.<br>
>><br>
>> Unfortunately, the current behavior, of showing it always as +/- and providing<br>
>> no way to convert back (selecting "split" on an existing memory slot zero's out<br>
>> the rx offset by inserting the base frequency) really should be considered a bug<br>
>> as it is effectively "Write-only Memory". At least fix it so that when you<br>
>> change + or - to split, it does the math and shows you the resulting frequency.<br>
>> That *should* be trivial to do.<br>
>><br>
>> I finally figured out what the "Properties" button does (it does nothing and<br>
>> provides no feedback if you have no memory item selected, so it really should be<br>
>> disabled/greyed-out.) If I change from + to split in the Memory Properties pane,<br>
>> it gives me a warning icon telling me the offset is out of range! Duhh! That's<br>
>> because it *is* an offset, not a frequency. And Chirp should change it to a<br>
>> frequency automatically when I change from +/- to split. That would at least<br>
>> give me a way to see the frequency without having to do math in my head. I would<br>
>> like to report this as a bug as this is just plain wrong!<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks again,<br>
>><br>
>> Gerard<br>
>><br>
>>> On 3/2/2016 12:51 PM, Tom Hayward wrote:<br>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 11:09 AM, gerard <<a href="mailto:gmkayaker@gmail.com">gmkayaker@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> Hi,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I'm am a long-time user of VHF radios starting with a VX-150 some 15 years ago<br>
>>>> and switching to Baofeng UV-5R when they were relatively new. I have been using<br>
>>>> Chirp to program my UV-5R since I first got the radio. One thing that I find<br>
>>>> annoying about how Chirp works with repeater splits is that it shows it as a +<br>
>>>> or a -. Most people I deal with in Canada give me frequency pairs. And I haven't<br>
>>>> found an easy way to get Chirp to show me the actual frequency (as opposed to<br>
>>>> the +/-.) When I enter a frequency as a "split", it immediately gets converted<br>
>>>> to "+/-" and there seems to be no way to get Chirp to show it as a "split". This<br>
>>>> makes it really hard to confirm that I have the correct frequency entered; I<br>
>>>> need to do frequency math in my head or paper which increases the likelihood of<br>
>>>> errors.<br>
>>> This is a shortcoming of the UV5R. It cannot differentiate from offset<br>
>>> and independent tx/rx records--the radio stores them identically.<br>
>>> Chirp assumes that most users are hams and prefer the +/- offset view,<br>
>>> so that's how Chirp displays offsets less than 70 MHz. (This is the<br>
>>> conversion you're talking about.)<br>
>>><br>
>>>> It would be great if Chirp had a setting that allowed me to say "Always show<br>
>>>> splits using the format entered" or "Always show splits in: " and let me choose<br>
>>>> between +/- and "split".<br>
>>> Most ham radios (Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood) differentiate offset and<br>
>>> odd-split records. With these radios, Chirp displays the frequency or<br>
>>> offset as entered.<br>
>>><br>
>>> For the UV5R, this would require storing the "format entered"<br>
>>> somewhere. The UV5R memory provides nowhere to store this, so that<br>
>>> means we would need some sort of proprietary Chirp file to store this<br>
>>> information. The .img files are just a simple dump of the radio<br>
>>> memory, not proprietary, and don't offer a place to store auxiliary<br>
>>> data like this. This would only be beneficial when editing said<br>
>>> proprietary file--after doing a "Download from Radio" you'd be back to<br>
>>> just what was stored in the UV5R. Not really an optimal solution.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I've proposed an alternative scheme: on radios that don't know the<br>
>>> difference between an offset and an odd split, display as offsets in<br>
>>> the ham band and as tx/rx frequency outside the ham band. This would<br>
>>> work great for me as I program a number of Part 90 certified radios<br>
>>> for mixed Part 90 and ham use. In my area, ham repeater channels are<br>
>>> usually communicated by offset and commercial channels by their tx/rx<br>
>>> frequencies. However, this scheme presents some challenges too. The<br>
>>> hand bands differ by locale and not everyone has the same preference<br>
>>> as myself.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Your other idea, '"Always show splits in: " and let me choose between<br>
>>> +/- and "split"' has its own challenges. Besides the UI work to add<br>
>>> this preference selection (which most Chirp developers tend to avoid<br>
>>> due to its complexity), I think it would require updating all radio<br>
>>> drivers to support the new scheme--a monumental task. Also, it would<br>
>>> defeat the feature of most ham radios that properly differentiate<br>
>>> between offsets and odd-split records.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The way Chirp does it now was chosen intentionally to please the<br>
>>> largest number of users. Unfortunately we can't please everyone. We're<br>
>>> always open to discuss new ideas--that's what this mailing list is for<br>
>>> (or the chirp_devel list for the implementation details). Hopefully<br>
>>> this background on the treatment of offsets and radios that don't<br>
>>> support them is helpful fodder for discussion.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Tom KD7LXL<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> chirp_users mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users</a><br>
>>> This message was sent to Gerard Meszaros at <a href="mailto:chirp@gerardm.com">chirp@gerardm.com</a><br>
>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to <a href="mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> chirp_users mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
>> <a href="http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users</a><br>
>> This message was sent to Dave VK2FDJS at <a href="mailto:vk2fdjs@gmail.com">vk2fdjs@gmail.com</a><br>
>> To unsubscribe, send an email to <a href="mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> chirp_users mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users</a><br>
> This message was sent to Gerard Meszaros at <a href="mailto:chirp@gerardm.com">chirp@gerardm.com</a><br>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to <a href="mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
chirp_users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
<a href="http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users</a><br>
This message was sent to Eric Vought at <a href="mailto:evought@pobox.com">evought@pobox.com</a><br>
To unsubscribe, send an email to <a href="mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>chirp_users mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com</a></span><br><span><a href="http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users">http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users</a></span><br><span>This message was sent to Dave VK2FDJS at <a href="mailto:vk2fdjs@gmail.com">vk2fdjs@gmail.com</a></span><br><span>To unsubscribe, send an email to <a href="mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com">chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com</a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>