[chirp_users] chirp_users Digest, Vol 158, Issue 13

andre.martin at telenet.be andre.martin at telenet.be
Wed Feb 23 05:23:40 PST 2022


Does anybody hass the same problem  in LATEST CHIRP,
I can read all from my UV82
AND
from my UV82BF.
I can not load my frequenties from UV82B in  my UV82 MODEL. 
IN CHIRPPROGRAM NOT POSSIBLE TO CHANGE MODEL.
I don't understand how that is?
Andre

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: "chirp users-request" <chirp_users-request at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Aan: "chirp users" <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Verzonden: Dinsdag 22 februari 2022 21:00:03
Onderwerp: chirp_users Digest, Vol 158, Issue 13

Send chirp_users mailing list submissions to
	chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	chirp_users-request at intrepid.danplanet.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
	chirp_users-owner at intrepid.danplanet.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of chirp_users digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: GMRS Channel Locking (Chris Romp)
   2. Re: GMRS Channel Locking (Chris Romp)
   3. Re: GMRS Channel Locking (K0LNY_Glenn)
   4. Re: GMRS Channel Locking (Jim Unroe)
   5. WHY CAN WE NOT CHANGE RODIOMODEL IN THE CHIRPROGRAM?
      (andre.martin at telenet.be)
   6. Re: WHY CAN WE NOT CHANGE RODIOMODEL IN THE	CHIRPROGRAM?
      (Jim Unroe)
   7. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 158, Issue 12
      (andre.martin at telenet.be)
   8. Re: WHY CAN WE NOT CHANGE RODIOMODEL IN THE CHIRPROGRAM?
      (frrobert at frrobert.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 14:57:58 -0800
From: Chris Romp <chrisromp+chirp at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] GMRS Channel Locking
To: chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
Message-ID:
	<CAPBgP_d78O78hMQzn-AHBA35eLOQsnBgJoW=txYmdy4sHPcQJQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello,

I have a question about how CHIRP handles GMRS radios, e.g. BTech GMRS V1
and Retevis RB26. I've noticed that CHIRP enforces that GMRS channels
follow the FRS channel number and frequency pairings, e.g. Channel 1 is
462.5625, Channel 18 is 462.625, etc.  I've been trying to find in the FCC
regs if this mapping is a requirement of GMRS operation. The only place
I've found the channels spelled out is on 47 CFR Part 95B ?95.563 "FRS
Channels" (link), but GMRS seems only to specify the frequencies and
bandwidth which may be used via Part 95E ?95.1763 "GMRS Channels" (link).
It's entirely possible that I've missed the clause requiring this mapping,
and I am not a lawyer, so apologies if I've overlooked it.

When I am programming a GMRS radio, I don't always want what my family
refers to as our "channel 1" to be 462.5625.  Likewise I may want to set up
different repeaters that may use the same frequencies, but different tones
(especially on radios where I cannot edit the tone from the radio itself)
 I am able to program the RB26 to accept an alternate GMRS-legal frequency
with a little trickery, so there does not seem to be a firmware restriction
enforcing this and it hasn't bricked my radio (yet).

Would it be possible for CHIRP to accept GMRS-legal frequencies in any
channel slot, and not require the FRS channel-frequency mapping?

Thank you,
Chris Romp
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_users/attachments/20220221/083af466/attachment-0001.html 

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 14:59:29 -0800
From: Chris Romp <chrisromp+chirp at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] GMRS Channel Locking
To: chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
Message-ID:
	<CAPBgP_ePVX8DLXSEZMiE=f6uFBBXSVu3k9_MgEKTbkjcvC3rRw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Oops, broke my hyperlinks:

47 CFR Part 95B ?95.563 "FRS Channels" (link
<https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-B/section-95.563>
)
47 CFR Part 95E ?95.1763 "GMRS Channels" (link
<https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E/section-95.1763>
)


On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 1:43 PM Chris Romp <chrisromp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have a question about how CHIRP handles GMRS radios, e.g. BTech GMRS V1
> and Retevis RB26. I've noticed that CHIRP enforces that GMRS channels
> follow the FRS channel number and frequency pairings, e.g. Channel 1 is
> 462.5625, Channel 18 is 462.625, etc.  I've been trying to find in the FCC
> regs if this mapping is a requirement of GMRS operation. The only place
> I've found the channels spelled out is on 47 CFR Part 95B ?95.563 "FRS
> Channels" (link
> <https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-B/section-95.563>),
> but GMRS seems only to specify the frequencies and bandwidth which may be
> used via Part 95E ?95.1763 "GMRS Channels" (link
> <https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E/section-95.1763>).
> It's entirely possible that I've missed the clause requiring this mapping,
> and I am not a lawyer, so apologies if I've overlooked it.
>
> When I am programming a GMRS radio, I don't always want what my family
> refers to as our "channel 1" to be 462.5625.  Likewise I may want to set up
> different repeaters that may use the same frequencies, but different tones
> (especially on radios where I cannot edit the tone from the radio itself)
> I am able to program the RB26 to accept an alternate GMRS-legal frequency
> with a little trickery, so there does not seem to be a firmware restriction
> enforcing this and it hasn't bricked my radio (yet).
>
> Would it be possible for CHIRP to accept GMRS-legal frequencies in any
> channel slot, and not require the FRS channel-frequency mapping?
>
> Thank you,
> Chris Romp
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_users/attachments/20220221/6e5fbabf/attachment-0001.html 

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 17:11:54 -0600
From: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn at ervin.email>
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] GMRS Channel Locking
To: "Discussion of CHIRP" <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID: <009f01d82778$6b543870$8effa8c0 at WIN40RPKAT965G>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,
You can put the frequencies on any channel you wish, the channels are just your radio selections for those frequencies.
Glenn
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Chris Romp 
  To: chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 4:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [chirp_users] GMRS Channel Locking


  Hello,

  I have a question about how CHIRP handles GMRS radios, e.g. BTech GMRS V1 and Retevis RB26. I've noticed that CHIRP enforces that GMRS channels follow the FRS channel number and frequency pairings, e.g. Channel 1 is 462.5625, Channel 18 is 462.625, etc.  I've been trying to find in the FCC regs if this mapping is a requirement of GMRS operation. The only place I've found the channels spelled out is on 47 CFR Part 95B ?95.563 "FRS Channels" (link), but GMRS seems only to specify the frequencies and bandwidth which may be used via Part 95E ?95.1763 "GMRS Channels" (link).  It's entirely possible that I've missed the clause requiring this mapping, and I am not a lawyer, so apologies if I've overlooked it.

  When I am programming a GMRS radio, I don't always want what my family refers to as our "channel 1" to be 462.5625.  Likewise I may want to set up different repeaters that may use the same frequencies, but different tones (especially on radios where I cannot edit the tone from the radio itself)  I am able to program the RB26 to accept an alternate GMRS-legal frequency with a little trickery, so there does not seem to be a firmware restriction enforcing this and it hasn't bricked my radio (yet).

  Would it be possible for CHIRP to accept GMRS-legal frequencies in any channel slot, and not require the FRS channel-frequency mapping?

  Thank you,
  Chris Romp




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  chirp_users mailing list
  chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
  http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
  This message was sent to K0LNY at glenn at ervin.email
  To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe at intrepid.danplanet.com
  To report this email as off-topic, please email chirp_users-owner at intrepid.danplanet.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_users/attachments/20220221/c7ac79f8/attachment-0001.html 

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 20:24:07 -0500
From: Jim Unroe <rock.unroe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] GMRS Channel Locking
To: Discussion of CHIRP <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID:
	<CADnO8U52uYvspHf05QQ3T2VBJeQUFGY=hHAkzr8+oJDfze8jtg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi Chris,

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 6:08 PM Chris Romp <chrisromp+chirp at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I have a question about how CHIRP handles GMRS radios, e.g. BTech GMRS V1 and Retevis RB26. I've noticed that CHIRP enforces that GMRS channels follow the FRS channel number and frequency pairings, e.g. Channel 1 is 462.5625, Channel 18 is 462.625, etc.  I've been trying to find in the FCC regs if this mapping is a requirement of GMRS operation. The only place I've found the channels spelled out is on 47 CFR Part 95B ?95.563 "FRS Channels" (link), but GMRS seems only to specify the frequencies and bandwidth which may be used via Part 95E ?95.1763 "GMRS Channels" (link).  It's entirely possible that I've missed the clause requiring this mapping, and I am not a lawyer, so apologies if I've overlooked it.
>
> When I am programming a GMRS radio, I don't always want what my family refers to as our "channel 1" to be 462.5625.  Likewise I may want to set up different repeaters that may use the same frequencies, but different tones (especially on radios where I cannot edit the tone from the radio itself)  I am able to program the RB26 to accept an alternate GMRS-legal frequency with a little trickery, so there does not seem to be a firmware restriction enforcing this and it hasn't bricked my radio (yet).
>
> Would it be possible for CHIRP to accept GMRS-legal frequencies in any channel slot, and not require the FRS channel-frequency mapping?
>
> Thank you,
> Chris Romp

The BTECH GMRS-V1 channel assignments are in firmware. Even if CHIRP
would let you put in different frequencies, it wouldn't make any
difference. Channel 1 will always be 465.5625 MHz.

The Retevis models are programmed to match how the OEM software
behaves. Some of the newer Retevis models let you program the GMRS
frequencies in the radio however you please.

Jim KC9HI


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:35:06 +0100 (CET)
From: andre.martin at telenet.be
Subject: [chirp_users] WHY CAN WE NOT CHANGE RODIOMODEL IN THE
	CHIRPROGRAM?
To: chirp users <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID:
	<654204143.123396446.1645529706958.JavaMail.zimbra at telenet.be>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



-- 
------ 
M.V.G. 
Martin Andre 
ingooigemplaats 29/1 
8570 ANZEGEM 
0032.474.302.032 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_users/attachments/20220222/88dd217f/attachment-0001.html 

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:40:22 -0500
From: Jim Unroe <rock.unroe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] WHY CAN WE NOT CHANGE RODIOMODEL IN THE
	CHIRPROGRAM?
To: Discussion of CHIRP <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID:
	<CADnO8U7w95axCyWTpwVG5eckN+34-=4xnPyj4W2q6FvPTdcYNQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Andre,

Because when you are uploading, the tab is specific to the radio
Vendor / Model that it was downloaded from. The Vendor / Model are
greyed out because the tab must go back into the same Vendor / Model
that it came from.

You can only choose the Vendor and Model selections when downloading,
but even then, you must choose the Vendor / Model that matches the
radio that is being downloaded from.

Jim KC9HI


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:16:36 +0100 (CET)
From: andre.martin at telenet.be
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] chirp_users Digest, Vol 158, Issue 12
To: chirp users <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID:
	<1808412679.123752161.1645535796662.JavaMail.zimbra at telenet.be>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

QUESTION?
WHY CAN WE NOT CHANGE RODIOMODEL ANYMORE IN THE CHIRPROGRAM?

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: "chirp users-request" <chirp_users-request at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Aan: "chirp users" <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Verzonden: Maandag 21 februari 2022 21:00:02
Onderwerp: chirp_users Digest, Vol 158, Issue 12

Send chirp_users mailing list submissions to
	chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	chirp_users-request at intrepid.danplanet.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
	chirp_users-owner at intrepid.danplanet.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of chirp_users digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: CHIRP problem (A Hendrix)
   2. Re: Fonghoo Radio (John Wuest)
   3. Re: Fonghoo Radio (Ken Hansen)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 16:18:10 -0500
From: A Hendrix <logosscribe.productions at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] CHIRP problem
To: Discussion of CHIRP <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID:
	<CAKZQ_idaihSNR=1BLq7A7PXFYE3u9ofwXjiBheCE=KUw+xBH_g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi, Leilani.
I have a BTECH UV-5X3 and had some simple issues trying to program. When
you attached the cable to the radio, was the radio on or off? Is it on or
off when you get the error message? (I had to make sure it was off when I
plugged it in, then on when I tried to upload the radio data to CHIRP, and
if it asked me to turn it on or off I did that) Is the cable pushed all the
way into the radio? (not trying to be condescending...that was one of my
problems...the plugs have to be pushed in hard)
...hoped that helped...
 de A Hendrix KO4UMY

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 2:59 PM Leilani Mariotti <KA8WRL at writeme.com> wrote:

> I am trying to download CHIRP onto my Baofeng UV-5X3 radio.
>
> I have the latest CHIRP, the cable is attached to the computer and radio.
>
> Here is the error code that I see when trying to do the initial from
> Radio:  CHIRP - An error had occurred  Error reading date from radio:  not
> the amount of date we want.  OK
>
> I need your help so I can program the radio.
> Thank you.
>
> HamWAF
> KA8WRL at writeme.com
> _______________________________________________
> chirp_users mailing list
> chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
> This message was sent to AHendrix at logosscribe.productions at gmail.com
> To unsubscribe, send an email to
> chirp_users-unsubscribe at intrepid.danplanet.com
> To report this email as off-topic, please email
> chirp_users-owner at intrepid.danplanet.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_users/attachments/20220220/8941309a/attachment-0001.html 

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:01:14 -0500
From: John Wuest <jhwuest at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] Fonghoo Radio
To: Discussion of CHIRP <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID:
	<CABdgqVdXAhkZGZV9=zpRm24AZuNwxGNGboYKsqL-WNGiF6bWTA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Amazon Q&A about this radio:
Question:
does it have software
<https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/TxFUALYFB9BSLC/ref=ask_dp_dpmw_al_hza>
Answer:
Chirp support(Model: KT8900D). If you can find it, please contact us
through the Amazon messaging link.
By FONGHOO Radio SELLER
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=cm_rn_bdg_help?ie=UTF8&nodeId=14279681>
on
December 8, 2021
PS - I believe that the sentence should read: If you can't find it...

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 9:30 PM Nigel A. Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel at ngunn.net>
wrote:

> Amazon says  FREE software can be download at FONGHOO official website.
>
> > On 19/02/2022 19:52 TW <kx7trw at wirch1.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi, does anybody know if there is an existing radio profile that will
> > work to program the Fonghoo HAM-UV25? I have tried Fonghoo's support,
> > but they are non-responsive. Thanks!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > chirp_users mailing list
> > chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
> > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
> > This message was sent to Nigel Gunn, W8IFF at nigel at ngunn.net
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to
> chirp_users-unsubscribe at intrepid.danplanet.com
> > To report this email as off-topic, please email
> chirp_users-owner at intrepid.danplanet.com
>
> Nigel A. Gunn, ///shoulders.outwards.resolutions tel +1-937-971-0366
> Amateur Radio G8IFF W8IFF and GMRS WRBV701, e-mail nigel at ngunn.net www
> http://www.ngunn.net
> _______________________________________________
> chirp_users mailing list
> chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
> This message was sent to John Wuest at jhwuest at gmail.com
> To unsubscribe, send an email to
> chirp_users-unsubscribe at intrepid.danplanet.com
> To report this email as off-topic, please email
> chirp_users-owner at intrepid.danplanet.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_users/attachments/20220221/f060a3c7/attachment-0001.html 

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 10:10:28 -0600
From: Ken Hansen <ken at n2vip.org>
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] Fonghoo Radio
To: Discussion of CHIRP <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID: <62A05D4A-1A10-40FF-8E6A-AB6F340438CC at n2vip.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

It's also mentioned in the features & description section of the listing:

??CHIRO SUPPORT(Model: KT8900D). FREE software can be download at FONGHOO official website.

I assume CHIRO means CHIRP.

I also looked at their UV20 radio on Amazon, and the supplied microphone is marked "QYT"...

Ken

> On Feb 19, 2022, at 20:33, Martin Cooper <mfncooper at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> According to the Q&A for this radio on Amazon, using Chirp with model KT8900D is supposed to work. (Fonghoo posted this answer.)
> 
> Martin.
> KD6YAM
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 6:16 PM TW <KX7TRW at wirch1.com> wrote:
>> Hi, does anybody know if there is an existing radio profile that will 
>> work to program the Fonghoo HAM-UV25? I have tried Fonghoo's support, 
>> but they are non-responsive. Thanks!
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> chirp_users mailing list
>> chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
>> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
>> This message was sent to Martin Cooper at mfncooper at gmail.com
>> To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe at intrepid.danplanet.com
>> To report this email as off-topic, please email chirp_users-owner at intrepid.danplanet.com
> _______________________________________________
> chirp_users mailing list
> chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
> This message was sent to Ken Hansen at ken at n2vip.org
> To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe at intrepid.danplanet.com
> To report this email as off-topic, please email chirp_users-owner at intrepid.danplanet.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_users/attachments/20220221/c2c218b4/attachment-0001.html 

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
chirp_users mailing list
chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe at intrepid.danplanet.com

End of chirp_users Digest, Vol 158, Issue 12
********************************************


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:00:56 -0800
From: frrobert at frrobert.com
Subject: Re: [chirp_users] WHY CAN WE NOT CHANGE RODIOMODEL IN THE
	CHIRPROGRAM?
To: Discussion of CHIRP <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID: <1ea1e5d8bb9c680a12798a434a9069b5 at frrobert.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Andre,

I am going to assume you want to copy your channel memories from one 
radio to another and the radios are not the same.

Use the export and import function

Here is more detail.

https://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/CSV_HowTo

Any spreadsheet program can open and edit csv files.

On 2022-02-22 04:40, Jim Unroe wrote:
> Andre,
> 
> Because when you are uploading, the tab is specific to the radio
> Vendor / Model that it was downloaded from. The Vendor / Model are
> greyed out because the tab must go back into the same Vendor / Model
> that it came from.
> 
> You can only choose the Vendor and Model selections when downloading,
> but even then, you must choose the Vendor / Model that matches the
> radio that is being downloaded from.
> 
> Jim KC9HI
> _______________________________________________
> chirp_users mailing list
> chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
> This message was sent to frrobert at frrobert.com at frrobert at frrobert.com
> To unsubscribe, send an email to 
> chirp_users-unsubscribe at intrepid.danplanet.com
> To report this email as off-topic, please email
> chirp_users-owner at intrepid.danplanet.com


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
chirp_users mailing list
chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com
http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe at intrepid.danplanet.com

End of chirp_users Digest, Vol 158, Issue 13
********************************************


More information about the chirp_users mailing list