[chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc.

Tom Henderson Tom at Henderson4.us
Mon Jan 29 09:44:28 PST 2018

I second that. Somewhere there must be an email list just for twerps who 
want to debate Antivirus protection strategy, and it's calling your names.

Tom Henderson

On 01/29/2018 11:25 AM, Mike Birch wrote:
> Gentlemen,
> Would you please take your OT "holy war/debate" about antivirus 
> software someplace other than the [chirp_users] list....
> Your current discussion thread has NOTHING to do with CHIRP.
> Thank You,
> --
> Michael Birch KD9BDL
> Grid: EN53la
> On 1/29/2018 8:53 AM, Kenneth L. Bechtel, II wrote:
>> As someone who has been researching and fighting Viruses/ Malware for 
>> 30 years, this is the most IGNORANT, DANGEROUS  advice that I’ve come 
>> across lately. This is in no way shape or form how AV products work.  
>> Yes, I preach the most effective tools are basic security practices, 
>> but those practices include the proper defensive tools.  HOW THE HECK 
>> can you know you’re not infected if you haven’t even checked your 
>> system.  That’s like saying I’m healthy because a doctor hasn’t told 
>> me I have high blood pressure, and since I haven’t been told I 
>> haven’t seen a doctor in 10 years.  It’s advice such as this (along 
>> with I don’t run av because I run a Mac/Linux and there is nothing 
>> targeting them).  Please Leave the defensive advice to the 
>> professionals who KNOW what they are talking about, thank you
>> Kenneth L. Bechtel, II
>> Team Anti-Virus
>> Phone: 717-473-0839                  |Member AVAR
>> email - kbechtel at teamanti-virus.org 
>> <mailto:kbechtel at teamanti-virus.org> |Founding Member AVIEN
>> PGP Footprint:  969E 2A27 3042 EE52 AEFB 6FF0 2711 9467 D38C 5C0F
>> *From:* chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com 
>> [mailto:chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com] *On Behalf Of 
>> *Dennis Smith
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 9:37 AM
>> *To:* Dave B <g8kbv at uku.co.uk>; Discussion of CHIRP 
>> <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc.
>> Dump 3rd party AV suites and use the OS provided AV tools. In order 
>> for antivirus software to work, it needs to install hooks into the 
>> OS, introducing weaknesses into the OS that were not there before. 
>> For an AV to work they need to do all the things a virus does such as 
>> man in the middle attacks EG reading your communications, even 
>> secured communications. The OS developers know where the right places 
>> to install it's own AV without weakening the OS.
>> It's hard to know where a virus ends and the AV starts because they 
>> both do the same thing to get installed starting with the similar 
>> social and psychological tricks to get you to install them. And once 
>> installed they both use these same tricks (but in different ways) to 
>> make you keep them installed, or to prevent uninstallation. A bit 
>> like different political parties!
>> As previously mentions, the best AV is UNcommon sense! Think before 
>> you click, ask the following questions :
>> Who gains from this? Is there ulterior motive such as gaining 
>> personal information?
>> *Did I ask for this? Unsolicited files or offers are not free, 
>> nothing is free except risk.
>> *Do I want this? -- Does the file come with an anything extra you 
>> didn't want
>> *Why are they asking me for this? -- EG do they need my credit card 
>> number? All I need in some cases is a name, half a telephone number 
>> or postcode/town name and I can with reasonable certainty find 
>> someone and dig really deep in to their personal life (I had to do 
>> this for a job I had, I'm no expert but I always got my target, a 
>> professional will always get you).
>> *Is this really the file I wanted? -- Do you know how to check the 
>> file for tampering by checking the MD5 checksum?
>> And more importantly a good, tested backup system known to be 
>> reliable and accessible is the minimum safety you should have. I 
>> mirror my drive and have copies made stored in my safe, and at a 
>> remote location. The remote variant is in a uniquely sealed bag, but 
>> that's just me. For many this is overkill. However, I can be up and 
>> running from a dead PC in 20 minutes from exactly where I left off.
>> I have not had a successful virus or malware attack in 10 years since 
>> adopting this method. SSD's instead of spinning rust drives are 
>> vastly faster, and for the most part just as reliable, but with the 
>> back ups it makes them even better. Also it's fair to say this method 
>> works equally as well for Windows and Linux, and probably Macs but 
>> since adding things like extra drives is almost impossible, I have my 
>> doubts!
>> </RANT>
>> Dennis Smith
>> M1DLG
>> On 29 January 2018 at 08:53, Dave B via chirp_users 
>> <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com 
>> <mailto:chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>> wrote:
>>     Quite honestly, I'm amazed anyone still thinks running Norton AV
>>     is an acceptable solution to a perceived problem.
>>     It itself is riddled with inconsistencies and other funnies, plus
>>     has a hair trigger for false positives.  "Not seen by many users"
>>     is NOT a good metric to judge if something is bad or not.
>>     Windows own Windows Defender, in conjunction with whatever
>>     "Security Essentials" is now called is more than adequate for
>>     90+% of users, and the price is right.
>>     Coupled with the use of "uBlock Origin" in your web browsers, to
>>     block the obnoxious nasties in on-line add's, and you'll have a
>>     slick fast and more than safe enough system.   (Heck, that is
>>     even in the MS app store now, as well as Chrome's webstore.)
>>     The single best AV tool, is common sense...   Never, and I mean
>>     NEVER *NEVER*  Click on a popup you didn't expect*, or go to a
>>     site or download something *YOU DID NOT YOURSELF ASK OR GO
>>     LOOKING FOR*!
>>     And Never EVER respond to anything in unsolicited (spam) email's,
>>     however attractive the proposition may look.
>>     (* Not even any 'X' close button, that only confirms that they've
>>     found a human, and may not even remove the popup.   Back out of
>>     that website/restart the browser and find another with what you
>>     want.)
>>     Norton AV used to be good, it's now just more bloat-ware, with
>>     questionable practices, and not in truth a particularly good user
>>     experience.
>>     As above, the best AV tool, is the wet stuff between your ears.  
>>     As in all life, if something appears to be too good to be true,
>>     it probably is bad for you, your PC, and/or your bank account!
>>     73.
>>     Dave G0WBX.
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