[chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc.

Mike Birch kd9bdl at arrl.net
Mon Jan 29 09:25:45 PST 2018


Gentlemen,

Would you please take your OT "holy war/debate" about  antivirus 
software someplace other than the [chirp_users] list....

Your current discussion thread has NOTHING to do with CHIRP.

Thank You,

--
Michael Birch KD9BDL
Grid: EN53la


On 1/29/2018 8:53 AM, Kenneth L. Bechtel, II wrote:
>
> As someone who has been researching and fighting Viruses/ Malware for 
> 30 years, this is the most IGNORANT, DANGEROUS  advice that I’ve come 
> across lately. This is in no way shape or form how AV products work.  
> Yes, I preach the most effective tools are basic security practices, 
> but those practices include the proper defensive tools.  HOW THE HECK 
> can you know you’re not infected if you haven’t even checked your 
> system.  That’s like saying I’m healthy because a doctor hasn’t told 
> me I have high blood pressure, and since I haven’t been told I haven’t 
> seen a doctor in 10 years.  It’s advice such as this (along with I 
> don’t run av because I run a Mac/Linux and there is nothing targeting 
> them).  Please Leave the defensive advice to the professionals who 
> KNOW what they are talking about, thank you
>
> Kenneth L. Bechtel, II
>
> Team Anti-Virus
>
> Phone: 717-473-0839 |Member AVAR
>
> email - kbechtel at teamanti-virus.org 
> <mailto:kbechtel at teamanti-virus.org> |Founding Member AVIEN
>
> PGP Footprint:  969E 2A27 3042 EE52 AEFB 6FF0 2711 9467 D38C 5C0F
>
> *From:* chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com 
> [mailto:chirp_users-bounces at intrepid.danplanet.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *Dennis Smith
> *Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 9:37 AM
> *To:* Dave B <g8kbv at uku.co.uk>; Discussion of CHIRP 
> <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [chirp_users] [OT] Re: Problems with Norton etc.
>
> Dump 3rd party AV suites and use the OS provided AV tools. In order 
> for antivirus software to work, it needs to install hooks into the OS, 
> introducing weaknesses into the OS that were not there before. For an 
> AV to work they need to do all the things a virus does such as man in 
> the middle attacks EG reading your communications, even secured 
> communications. The OS developers know where the right places to 
> install it's own AV without weakening the OS.
>
> It's hard to know where a virus ends and the AV starts because they 
> both do the same thing to get installed starting with the similar 
> social and psychological tricks to get you to install them. And once 
> installed they both use these same tricks (but in different ways) to 
> make you keep them installed, or to prevent uninstallation. A bit like 
> different political parties!
>
> As previously mentions, the best AV is UNcommon sense! Think before 
> you click, ask the following questions :
>
> Who gains from this? Is there ulterior motive such as gaining personal 
> information?
>
> *Did I ask for this? Unsolicited files or offers are not free, nothing 
> is free except risk.
>
> *Do I want this? -- Does the file come with an anything extra you 
> didn't want
>
> *Why are they asking me for this? -- EG do they need my credit card 
> number? All I need in some cases is a name, half a telephone number or 
> postcode/town name and I can with reasonable certainty find someone 
> and dig really deep in to their personal life (I had to do this for a 
> job I had, I'm no expert but I always got my target, a professional 
> will always get you).
>
> *Is this really the file I wanted? -- Do you know how to check the 
> file for tampering by checking the MD5 checksum?
>
> And more importantly a good, tested backup system known to be reliable 
> and accessible is the minimum safety you should have. I mirror my 
> drive and have copies made stored in my safe, and at a remote 
> location. The remote variant is in a uniquely sealed bag, but that's 
> just me. For many this is overkill. However, I can be up and running 
> from a dead PC in 20 minutes from exactly where I left off.
>
> I have not had a successful virus or malware attack in 10 years since 
> adopting this method. SSD's instead of spinning rust drives are vastly 
> faster, and for the most part just as reliable, but with the back ups 
> it makes them even better. Also it's fair to say this method works 
> equally as well for Windows and Linux, and probably Macs but since 
> adding things like extra drives is almost impossible, I have my doubts!
>
> </RANT>
>
> Dennis Smith
>
> M1DLG
>
> On 29 January 2018 at 08:53, Dave B via chirp_users 
> <chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com 
> <mailto:chirp_users at intrepid.danplanet.com>> wrote:
>
>     Quite honestly, I'm amazed anyone still thinks running Norton AV
>     is an acceptable solution to a perceived problem.
>
>     It itself is riddled with inconsistencies and other funnies, plus
>     has a hair trigger for false positives. "Not seen by many users"
>     is NOT a good metric to judge if something is bad or not.
>
>     Windows own Windows Defender, in conjunction with whatever
>     "Security Essentials" is now called is more than adequate for 90+%
>     of users, and the price is right.
>
>     Coupled with the use of "uBlock Origin" in your web browsers, to
>     block the obnoxious nasties in on-line add's, and you'll have a
>     slick fast and more than safe enough system.   (Heck, that is even
>     in the MS app store now, as well as Chrome's webstore.)
>
>     The single best AV tool, is common sense...   Never, and I mean
>     NEVER *NEVER*  Click on a popup you didn't expect*, or go to a
>     site or download something *YOU DID NOT YOURSELF ASK OR GO LOOKING
>     FOR*!
>
>     And Never EVER respond to anything in unsolicited (spam) email's,
>     however attractive the proposition may look.
>
>     (* Not even any 'X' close button, that only confirms that they've
>     found a human, and may not even remove the popup.   Back out of
>     that website/restart the browser and find another with what you want.)
>
>     Norton AV used to be good, it's now just more bloat-ware, with
>     questionable practices, and not in truth a particularly good user
>     experience.
>
>     As above, the best AV tool, is the wet stuff between your ears.  
>     As in all life, if something appears to be too good to be true, it
>     probably is bad for you, your PC, and/or your bank account!
>
>     73.
>
>     Dave G0WBX.
>
>
>
>
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>
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