<div dir="ltr">Tom posts some excellent points:<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>Why is Android is such a good </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">platform for programming radios that you're willing to rewrite Chirp?</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>You should try to articulate this. If you can't, maybe it's not worth </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">your time.(TRUE!!)</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
</div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">- Because I don't carry a laptop or netbook, and don't want to start. I do carry a phone or tablet. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">- Android vs. iOS....because Android has a larger market share, and because I think it will be easier. I might be proven wrong! </span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">- I see a few other people have requested it</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">- Because I have too much time on my hands?? ;)</span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>If you're going to use the Chirp brand name, we should probably review </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">your work before release.</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">I concur.</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">> You have to go to great lengths </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">to run Python on Android, such as not using the standard development</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">tools.</span><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Based on my short-term research, there are already several python engines already in the Play store for Android. I'm not sure they have all the required modules, but the point is that there are already several tools available. Early thoughts are to write a native Android app for the GUI, with callouts to python scripts to do the real work, including talking to the phone. Based on my limited info on the structure of Chirp, I think this may be a feasible approach, which could (should) lead to comparable radio/driver support to the regular version.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">>The app [USB-Serial port driver] is free, but he sells the use of the library that makes it </font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">possible, right?</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">You may be right. In the meantime, I have found several other serial port implementations, including Prolific themselves, as well as certain versions of Android. So there are options, subject to significantly more research. Very much hardware dependent...I sense some cable shopping coming up if this moves forward. I admit I would target those devices I have access to first: Nexus, Moto X, Samsung Stratosphere and Samsung S4. More variety might be helpful.</font></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">> </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Bluetooth is the only interface I can see being popular with Chirp for </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Android. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Well, I can't say I disagree, however t</font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">he price point for bluetooth dongle vs a serial cable + adapter for micro may shift the demand somewhat. Personally, I am more willing to spend $10 for a USB adapter than $85 for a BT adapter on the chance that it might work. </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I have concerns about the reliability of serial communications across BT. A good place to explore - but that's more of a stretch, since Chirp doesn't do that today, right? (or maybe that's the killer feature??)</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><div class="im" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">> #4: Is this list the right place to continue discussions?<br><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">>If this gains traction it may be worth creating a dedicated list.</span><br>
</div></div><div><br></div><div>I hope it does...I'm not able to do all the work required!</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Tom Hayward <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:esarfl@gmail.com" target="_blank">esarfl@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="">On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Rich Barstow <<a href="mailto:kc1bhr@barstow.cx">kc1bhr@barstow.cx</a>> wrote:<br>
> So I'm new to Chirp, did some looking around, and posted some questions<br>
> around Android-based CHIRP to the user list, and they (Tom H) suggested the<br>
> Developers list would be a better place to discuss.<br>
><br>
> Exec Summary:<br>
</div><div class="">> I want to lead an effort to develop an Android version of CHIRP.<br>
><br>
</div><div class="">> My Goals of the Project:<br>
><br>
> Get permission from the existing owners to extend CHIRP<br>
<br>
</div>No permission required. That's the beauty of the GPL :-) The primary<br>
stipulation is that you release the source along with any binary you<br>
distribute that contains any intellectual property from the Chirp<br>
project.<br>
<div class=""><br>
> Questions for this list: (I have so many!)<br>
> #1: Is this a good idea?<br>
<br>
</div>I'm a Chirp power user (I don't just develop for fun; I program a lot<br>
of radios!) and I've never needed or wanted to use Android to power a<br>
radio. The lack of keyboard and screen space makes this sound very<br>
unappealing (yes, I have a tablet and a Bluetooth keyboard and still<br>
feel the laptop is a better solution).<br>
<br>
I'm not sure exactly why you've decided Android is such a good<br>
platform for programming radios that you're willing to rewrite Chirp.<br>
You should try to articulate this. If you can't, maybe it's not worth<br>
your time.<br>
<div class=""><br>
> #2: Are you willing to let me try?<br>
<br>
</div>Can't hurt.<br>
<div class=""><br>
> #3: What would be a good level of "linkage" between the "computer" and<br>
> "mobile" teams?<br>
<br>
</div>If you're going to use the Chirp brand name, we should probably review<br>
your work before release. I'd expect feature parity, 100%<br>
compatibility of radio drivers (ability to run our Python radio<br>
drivers--I'll touch on this later), and code review to ensure there's<br>
nothing malicious.<br>
<div class=""><br>
> #4: Is this list the right place to continue discussions?<br>
<br>
</div>If this gains traction it may be worth creating a dedicated list.<br>
<div class=""><br>
> Milton Hywatt:<br>
> In my early Android days I did a lot of data mining Using Google for any<br>
> information I could get my hands on. I guess if you are lucky to find people<br>
> that know and program both PyGTK and the Android GUI would be a good start.<br>
> Like mentioned before the actual guts of the program that moves, collects<br>
> and organizes the data portion would probably have no trouble in Android.<br>
<br>
</div>This isn't really accurate. Almost all Android development is done in<br>
Java, and Chirp is written in Python. You have to go to great lengths<br>
to run Python on Android, such as not using the standard development<br>
tools. I suggested Kivy because it provides a way to compile Python<br>
for Android. This is not a trivial thing and makes the Android<br>
development process very different.<br>
<br>
Disclaimer: I've done very little Android development so this may not<br>
be 100% accurate.<br>
<div class=""><br>
On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 7:31 AM, Rich Barstow <<a href="mailto:kc1bhr@barstow.cx">kc1bhr@barstow.cx</a>> wrote:<br>
> Jon:<br>
><br>
> Actually, I found a (free) app written by someone that implements a driver<br>
> for the Prolific USB-Serial port chipset. (Orginally written to support<br>
> Tablet to Router/Switch for command line changes)<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=slickdevlabs.apps.usb2serialdemo" target="_blank">https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=slickdevlabs.apps.usb2serialdemo</a><br>
<br>
</div>The app is free, but he sells the use of the library that makes it<br>
possible, right? Ignoring the cost, I presume this comes with the<br>
inability to release the source code as part of an open source<br>
project.<br>
<br>
By the way, this app/library is only useful for Android devices that:<br>
1. Have USB host/OTG<br>
2. Don't have the PL-2303 kernel drivers<br>
<br>
He implements the driver in userspace (a Java lib I believe--oh, I<br>
wonder if this makes it impossible to use with Chirp) so that it can<br>
be used by devices that lack the kernel driver. If your Android device<br>
already has this driver built in or you can compile your own kernel,<br>
this library is unnecessary.<br>
<br>
P.S. I think he has one for FTDI too. I've used it for packet, converse mode :-)<br>
<div class=""><br>
> Native BlueTooth on Android supports serial communications, however most<br>
> target radio devices do not. (Ok, I did see that Baofung released a BT<br>
> adapter - that costs 150% of the radio cost.)<br>
<br>
</div>Bluetooth is the only interface I can see being popular with Chirp for<br>
Android. Everything else has too many dependencies. I've never tried<br>
programming a radio with serial-over-Bluetooth. Not sure how well it<br>
would work. You should test it.<br>
<br>
Tom KD7LXL<br>
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